From Todd Rhoades at Monday Morning Insight —
The church’s dirtiest little secret is not the scandal of flock [fleecing] pastors jetting around at their church’s expense. Nor is it the outrageous salaries or even the oft expected and oft over-enjoyed sex scandal and subsequent fall from grace of a once revered leader.
No, the real scandal of the American church is something much deeper, and more pernicious than any of those tragic, isolated events. And I do mean isolated, because they are a very small percentage of what really goes on day in and day out, week in and week out in the hundreds of thousands of Christian churches all across this country.
No, the real dirty little secret in the American church is that we regularly, relentlessly, and without mercy beat-up, chew-up and spit-out our leaders. …
- We starve them. …
- We have outrageous unreasonable expectations of our leaders. …
- We strip them of power. …
- We let pretend leaders bully them. …
- We leave them in financial peril. … [A] fired leader has no safety-net,
no appeal and no future in the ministry.
Read the full article here.
What do you think?
From Pillar.
Todd Rhodes comments reveal part of the value of often ignored apostolic teaching — that Mark Dever, for one, sees and urges Southern Baptists to embrace. (see "Baptist Polity and Elders," Journal For Baptist Theology and Ministry, Spring 2005). A plurality of elders helps limit this kind of darkness.
Another good article entitled "Advice For Aspiring Christ-Centered Preachers" probably gets at another side of this (see http://centerforgospelculture.org).
In Christ,
Bruce Morton
Katy, Texas
One thin Foster's article highlights, in my view, is the institutionalization of the collective body. And I don't see that as positive.
It also speaks to the fact there are people in pastoral roles who should not be there, in spite of their dedication and commitment.
Also, to Bruce, let's not turn this into the pastor v elders debate. While I agree multiple elders are generally the best model, most of us have seen preachers abused by elders, just as Foster describes. So a plurality of elders does not automatically solve the problem Foster identifies.
Personally, I encourage people to be like Paul — find a way to make a living, and the preach or teach or lead in your congregation.
So true! I have been there myself when I was fired and the congregation didnt even pay me what they owed me let alone any kind of attempt at severance pay… One of the many reasons I am seeking employment outside of a local congregation so I can hopefully be more faithful and effective in my work with a congregation as a 'volunteer'…
Can't imagine how difficult it would be to have to depend on my congregation to sustain me financially. Almost seems like a conflict of interest.. Tell me what I want to hear and I'll keep paying you…sad. I agree with David…to the extent possible, develop another stream of residual income and then speak the truth and love and let God work out the details…
Passion and Ability are not the same thing.. Some "Leaders" might ought to re-evaluate… But we also hold up a standard that none of us should have to attempt to live up to. Peter was a total mess and Jesus' command to him was, "Feed My Sheep." But, most folks ought to know what they're walking into before they do it.. Comes with the territory…right or wrong…
David-
What do you mean by the "institutionalization" of the church. Could you define this?
Best,
Matthew
This is my least favorite subject in church, badly treated preachers. When preachers begin to whine about their salary or their treatment, I always think , maybe you should try to work in the real world. They always say, well I spent so much time preparing, spend so much on an education, Maybe they should compare salaries with the person who teaches their children, who spent just as much time and money (or more) in preparation to teach school.Maybe they should sit in the hot seat when angry parents"who pay their salary" deside it is the teacher's fault that "little Jhonny" is failing. Maybe if they work on the floor of a drilling rig, or a farm tractor, during their education period. I don't pity whinners, do something else.If god called you to do the job, just maybe you are getting what he thinks you deserve.
I simply mean we build buildings and hire staff, spend much of our focus on sustaining and maintaining such staff and buildings. We worry about attendance because it influences our ability to "meet the budget."
We've turned the "church" into something that must be managed and maintained and funded, rather than a community of believers who seek to follow and emulate Jesus in their lives.
Admittedly, this is something of a generalization, and while I think this is very common, I acknowledge there are exceptions. But sadly this is more often the "rule" than the "exception."
How many "real-world" jobs are in danger because you do or do not wear a beard and / or mustache? It's happened.
How many "real-world" jobs involve being on-call 24/7 to handle the emergencies of tens to hundreds or possibly thousands of people? A few, but they generally get paid a whole lot better.
When someone goes in to the hospital, who do they want to come? THe preacher, and that's a good chunk of time right there, in addition to his other duties.
How many people in "real world" jobs have been called on by total strangers to go pick up their repentant teenage runaway and keep her overnight until her parents can come get her? As a PK, I shared my bed with her; I doubt anyone outside our family and hers ever knew about it, at least in our area.
Teachers get health insurance and retirement plans; preachers often don't.
Teachers "whine" sometimes, too; they're also often mistreated and underpaid. I have one parent who preached until he retired, and one who taught for several years, but moved to other aspects of education eventually. I've seen the effects on them and our family of both careers. Both are forms of service, and both have advantages and disadvantages.
Laymond,
Are there lazy whiners in pulpits? You bet. However, the Bible has quite a bit to say about how Christians are obligated to treat such leaders. Whiners or not, the church has often sinned against people God is trying to use to help her grow and develop.
–guy
Jay,
Ya know, i think there's nothing wrong in principle with certain people getting paid who are devoting their full-time to ministry. However, it seems to work out very poorly in practice, at least in my experience. At least in my experience, it seems like the churches i've been involved with would've fared better overall had pay not been involved and just had a guy who had a job. So while the article identifies some problems, are they somewhat symptomatic?–i mean, are there deeper reasons why we just can't seem to get this to work right? Or is this just the same as what the early church experienced?
–guy
My father was a CoC preacher all his adult life. For many years he was a "full-time" preacher, i.e., preaching was his only income. During those years, he was never paid enough money to qualify him to pay income tax. I think that is the definition of below the poverty level or something like that.
On the other side, I have seen preachers, and their spouses, almost faint when someone criticizes something about their job performance. Get real folks. I have been criticized for job performance all my life. Someone not liking how you work is part of work.
Preachers are people, too. No special treatment either way.
By the way, my father followed David Himes' advice and worked outside the church as well as a preacher. That was a great blessing that he paid Social Security taxes for years. He was killed in an auto accident and my mother didn't become destitute.
No doubt there are those that devote their life to ministry and are under paid and abused. My own experience has been with larger congregations and I have oft been disappointed in the leadership – preachers, elders and others. More than a cfew of them should never have been there, and once there they should have resigned on their own initiative after no more than a year or two. They would never have made it in the real world based on their "contributions."
Guy, I don't consider these people leaders. I consider these people a drain on church resources. leaders don't whine about their situation, they get up and lead. can you see a platoon Sgt. whinning about his situation, no he leads, he leads his men out of the situation, or he dies trying. These people are not leaders, they are a burden.
Laymond,
Is a leader unallowed to make the mistake of whining? Making a mistake like that makes him no longer a leader?
i don’t know what you mean by drain on church resources–that we should pay anyone? Or that these particular types are a drain?
–guy
Laymond,
Is a leader unallowed to make the mistake of whining? Making a mistake like that makes him no longer a leader?
i don't know what you mean by drain on church resources–that we should pay anyone? Or that these particular types are a drain?
–guy
No one will follow a leader that would pi-__ and moan or whine.
Laymond, you remind me of that Geico commercial!
Alabama John,
First of all, that's just false. Lot's of people end up 'leading' by virtue of being the loudest whiner.
Does any expression of belief that i am being mistreated constitute whining?
–guy
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't out to get you !!
guy;
Real leaders don't whine,those mistakes should be made before becomming a leader , experence not education, is what makes leaders. many people waste four years of their life being educated to do a job they are not suited to do.
I don't especially think we should hire preachers, but this type of preacher/worker is what I was referring to. not only would the church be better off, if he pursued another line of work, but so would he. No matter what people think today, money is not always the road to happiness.
Which one? the caveman, or the lizzard 🙂
When we treat people in the way the OP describes, that's because they are not really our leaders at all, just our most visible employees. Leaders? No. Religion club managers, perhaps. Always read the fine print on the job description. The manager is hired to handle operations, the board actually rules, and even they are subject to recall by the stockholders, er, church members.
guy,
not anywhere I've been. I've never seen but a few a whiners and never one in the lead UNLESS it was running away from something.
No, your stand up for yourself and demanding any mistreatment stop is not whining, just the opposite, its showing some backbone.
To express you are being wronged by whining and such is wrong.
There is a time to kick butt to make things right, not whine as whining is a sure sign of weakness and those that do so will be taken advantage of and it is their own fault..
Alabama John,
i think "whining" got un-constructively inserted into this discussion. Laymond said "whine"–and i took him to mean that as soon as a preacher opens his mouth for his own interests, he's just "whining."
A whiny child with weak parents ends up leading them just about anywhere he wants them to go.
–guy
the therapist sarge!
I agree. I love that commercial and sometimes I feel like that guy. Christians will whine and complain about how bad their life is and you just want to yell like that therapist if they would do what they know to be right their life just might improve!